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Post by Nikudou Natsumi on Feb 6, 2015 1:22:35 GMT
Vinyl? Isn't that a type of material? I've heard it in English before, like describing things in books, so it might be an English word, but I'm not sure if it originally came from it or not. Wait *looks up origin* Of course it's from Latin, like the base of how many other words of how many other languages. Anyway, I just wanted to say that it's never stood out to me before since I've always heard it in English.
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Post by Crimson Amarone on Feb 6, 2015 1:34:24 GMT
Hmm, my vocab says it's specifically plastic bag. But now that I'm checking other translations, I see that vinyl is coming up. Wow, "Biniru" sounds nothing like vinyl. If it were ヴァイヌル or ヴァイナル I might have made the connection easier. And I've never thought of a plastic bag being vinyl. I know vinyl is a type of plastic, but I don't think plastic bags are vinyl. :-\
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Post by Mikauzoran on Feb 6, 2015 2:36:19 GMT
What? Vinyl? Maybe are you wondering about the use of it in ビニール袋 for plastic bag?
Oh. Wow. Sorry. I missed the two posts on this page. ^.^; Let me go back and see what you were saying and then have my input.
Okay. After reading the other two posts, all I really have to add is that I have no idea why the Japanese use the word "vinyl bag" for "plastic bag". They've done weirder stuff before, so I'm not really phased by it. I just know how I've heard it used (actually, the first time I came across it was in one of the DC novels. The buried treasure one with the red cover. I totally forget the title now, but that one).
So yeah. Vinyl. *Shrugs*
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Post by Nikudou Natsumi on Feb 6, 2015 2:59:53 GMT
. . . What weirder stuff? Now I'm curious . . .
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Post by Mikauzoran on Feb 6, 2015 4:14:05 GMT
Not really "weird" weird, but just kind of "Hn. Interesting. Why exactly, Japan?" レンジ can be a stove top or a microwave, though in the case of microwaves, it usually has 電子 in front of it.
Also, a radiator is a ストーブ. Go fig. I can't think of any others at the moment, but they're out there. I'll let you know if I remember. There are just some words that make you cock your head to the side.
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Post by Nikudou Natsumi on Feb 6, 2015 18:25:34 GMT
*shakes head* Japan is weird. Everyone is weird. Oh yeah, when I first heard of レンジ in my Japanese lessons, I thought of Renji in Bleach. And then with 砂糖, I would always think of Satou-san
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Post by Crimson Amarone on Feb 7, 2015 16:12:39 GMT
It comes from referring to a stove as a range-- kitchen/cooking range. Calling radiators probably comes from old heating furnaces sometimes being called stoves.
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Post by assasin8 on Feb 21, 2015 13:21:36 GMT
I've gotten kind of stuck on the suffix "ずに". A Japanese friend asked for help on her homework, and we've been trying to explain the translation for "声をかけられずに", but none of us get it either... Is the verb being used here "かかる"? I even don't know if you can use that verb and this noun together, and I'm fairly sure I've never seen it conjugated like that. How does that conjugation go with "ずに", and what does do to the meaning of the sentence?
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Post by Mikauzoran on Feb 21, 2015 13:42:58 GMT
The verb is 掛ける (か) in the potential form, and in this instance with 声を, it means to call out/greet. Since it's potential, it means to be able to call out or greet.
ずに tacked on to the end of something means "without".
So your example means Without being able to call out/Without being able to greet.
音を立たずに死にました。"He died without a sound."
Like that. I believe it takes the place of ない. I can't figure out how else you would get that congugation. This is a another one of those things that I've kind of just figured out over the years and have developed an ear for without actually formally "learning" it. It's really cool, actually. I've never "learned" how to conjugate it, but I instinctually know that that's how it's supposed to be. I don't know the formal rules, but when I read over it I know it's right/wrong, kind of like how in English when you read something, and it just sounds right/wrong.
-.-; Sorry. I always feel like I have to justify my answers when it's something I've never learned in the classroom. I feel so lame saying I just picked this up on my own, but it sounds right. I feel like my life experience isn't a credible source from which to teach Japanese. -.-;
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Post by assasin8 on Feb 21, 2015 14:14:19 GMT
That's actually pretty cool! Honestly I think that's how a person SHOULD in theory, learn a language. By listening and drawing connections, a language student should be learning almost as much as the text book is teaching ^_^
That makes sense, right after "声をかけられずに", there was "家に帰った" written. So "without being able to say anything, I went home", I think she was trying to say.... Yeah, I couldn't find a grammar lesson about that online either, and "掛かる" just so happens to have a million and one uses, soooo..... Thanks a ton!
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Post by Mikauzoran on Feb 21, 2015 14:32:49 GMT
Good I'm glad that makes sense. Yeah, a lot of words have really different meanings depending upon situation. ^.^;
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Post by assasin8 on Feb 22, 2015 1:23:53 GMT
Also! How would you say "less" in Japanese? I finally understand "yori" and how to use it, but what if a person wanted to emphasize the thing that's less, rather than more?
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Post by Mikauzoran on Feb 22, 2015 1:32:32 GMT
Um...well, it really depends on the sentence. Japanese doesn't have "more" and "less" in the same way we do in English. より and の方 are really the best way to do comparison in my experience. Um...there's 以下(いか), but I feel like that's a little different. I don't feel like I've really used it much.
What exactly are you trying to say?
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Post by assasin8 on Feb 22, 2015 15:08:17 GMT
Like if a person wanted to say "this flower has less water than that one" or "I hear less when I listen to music" (that second one's kind of weird, but the idea is that it's not a direct comarison, it's "less" in a generally relative sense...)
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Post by Mikauzoran on Feb 22, 2015 15:39:54 GMT
Ooooh. Yeah, no. You would still use the より/の方 construction to say that this flower の方がその花より水が少ない/多い.
For the second one...you would probably say that you couldn't hear as well. 音楽を聴く時、ほかの音がよく聞こえない. So it would be literally, "When I listen to music, I don't hear other sounds/noise very well."
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