|
Post by assasin8 on Jan 4, 2015 22:19:30 GMT
Me and some friends are really confused about the usage of "のは". Apparently they can't find the information in any of their textbooks and my google searches aren't helping... What situation would you use it in?
|
|
|
Post by Crimson Amarone on Jan 4, 2015 23:51:57 GMT
The instance of のは that I know of is using verb clauses as nouns. This is the almost the same as using ことは. "All we need to treat verb clauses as a noun is by attaching a generic noun to the clause: 「こと」(事) 「の」 can also be used as a noun replacement. The difference is 「こと」 is a more general statement while 「の」 is specific to the context of the sentence." --from Tae Kim's guide お箸でご飯を食べることは、難しい。 It is difficult to eat rice by way of chopsticks. お箸でご飯を食べることは、 - "The thing of" eating rice with chopsticks... 朝、早く起きるのは、苦手。 Not good at waking up early in the morning. 早く起きるのは、"The thing of" waking up early... You should read over these two lessons:Special Expressions with Generic Nouns Verb clausesIf you have an example, I can see if that is used differently and maybe know if I have forgotten a different use of のは.
|
|
|
Post by assasin8 on Jan 5, 2015 0:33:20 GMT
This is actually kind of interesting because the sentences that we were arguing about were:
"眠りたくないの感じで、寝れないのはいいと思う"
"眠りたくないなら、眠れないことはいいと思う"
|
|
|
Post by Mikauzoran on Jan 5, 2015 3:41:00 GMT
What exactly is your question about those sentences? And what were you trying to say? The first one the way it reads now is something like "With the feeling of 'I don't want to sleep', the thing known as 'not being able to sleep' is good, I think." I assume you meant 寝られない, right? And I would actually use のが here since you're making the verb into a gerund. (Think "I like swimming." Swimming is a gerund, a verb made into a noun by putting it in the -ing form.) Is that even close to what you wanted to say? It sounds...awkward and kind of philosophical.
The second sentence is translated a little something like "If you don't want to sleep, not being able to sleep would be good, I think." But you want が after こと. Remember that が marks your subject while は is the topic marker. I'm sure Crimson has some good resources if you're struggling with what's a subject versus what's a topic since we don't exactly have such a strict equivalent in English.
Were either of those what you were actually trying to say? What was your question about them?
|
|
|
Post by assasin8 on Jan 5, 2015 19:59:23 GMT
The sentences are supposed to mean "if you don't want to sleep (or if you don't feel like sleeping), then I think it's fine not to (sleep)"... My question was originally about the usage of "のは", but it looks like both sentences have more problems than that... I'm actually not sure how to specifically ask about the problems with these sentences anymore... Do you kind of see what the issue is...? (I don't even know what I'm saying anymore...)
|
|
|
Post by Mikauzoran on Jan 5, 2015 21:48:02 GMT
Oh. I see. No, you wouldn't use のは in that instance.
It'd be more like 寝たくないなら、それはいいと思う。You could also say "だと思う" depending on just how casual you wanted to be.
|
|
|
Post by assasin8 on Jan 5, 2015 22:20:54 GMT
How would you say that with the word for "feel" in that sentence? Like, would you alter the sentence if you wanted to portray the idea of "feeling" like sleeping? Or is that just not going to be there ever?
|
|
|
Post by Mikauzoran on Jan 6, 2015 3:16:05 GMT
The word you were trying to use, 感じ/感じる is more of the "feeling" that you use to mean "emotions" or in the sense of "It has a certain kind of feel to it". Unless I'm totally blanking out at the moment, the verb form たい encompasses "I feel like doing~". For instance, if I wanted to say, "I feel like eating pasta", it would be "パスタが食べたい".
Someone correct me if I'm wrong and have had a grammar point completely wiped from my mind, though. I stayed up until 2:30AM last night because I suddenly made a breakthrough on FLL, and then I had to get up early because the worker was coming to install our new back door. So I'm a little loopy. I don't think I'm wrong, though. I don't think I would forget something simple like that.
|
|
|
Post by assasin8 on Jan 6, 2015 22:49:52 GMT
I see... Thank you! That was really helpful! ^_^
|
|
|
Post by assasin8 on Jan 24, 2015 1:59:34 GMT
This is a rather specific question, but how would you tell a person to tell someone something? I know how to use the imperative form with direct objects (like "wake up your brother" or "do your homework"), but how would you give the command to tell someone a phrase? (like "tell your kid to be quiet" as opposed to "calm your kid down" or "you need to tell Jo about his dead cat")
|
|
|
Post by Mikauzoran on Jan 24, 2015 14:27:21 GMT
^.^; Well, first of all, "Tell your kid to be quiet" is something that you would never say in Japanese. It would be unbelievably rude. Besides, the parent would probably already be making efforts to quiet their child if they were in a public place so that the child wouldn't inconvenience others. Still it wouldn't be your place unless you were in a bank that was being robbed and you were next to the person with a child and the child was attracting the attention of the robbers. Then you could probably get away with telling the person to get their child to shut up in the heat of the moment. You would have to apologize for it afterwords, though, once you were all safe. It's just not something that you as an "outsider" should say. That's just the way Japanese culture works. If you were a yakuza or some punk or an elder/authority figure, then it might be acceptable to dictate to parents like that, but... Was that just an example, or did you seriously want me to tell you how to tell someone to tell their kid to be quiet?
Anyway, moving on. Do you know how to do quotations? With と? You take the short form of a sentence, and then after it you put と言っていました.
Ex: He said he doesn't have any money. = ”お金がない”と言っていました。
Ex: She said she would go shopping. = ”買い物をしに行くわ”と言っていました。
と Signals a quotation. Good so far? Now to tell someone to tell someone something, you can use 言う (to say, to tell) or 伝える (to convey).
Ex: Tell Kaito to go to the store. = ‟西友に行って”と快斗に伝えてね。
Ex: Tell Hakuba that Kaito doesn't like fish. = ‟快斗は魚が嫌い”と白馬に言って。
At the risk of making things complicated, you can also use って in place of と. I've heard it mostly in more casual speech. Does that help?
|
|
|
Post by assasin8 on Jan 25, 2015 0:11:07 GMT
Wow, that was actually much simpler than I thought it would be... The example was something that I just thought up on the spot. My sister was talking about a Korean podcast and it was about command with quotations, and usually I try to translate the things she learns to see if I can do them in Japanese, and then I realized I didn't know how to do this. I also spent at least 20 minutes trying to figure out if there was a polite-imperative conjugation for verbs (only to feel like an idiot when I finally remembered it was just "nasai" after the regular imperative...) questions come from the oddest of places ^_^
|
|
|
Post by Mikauzoran on Jan 25, 2015 0:28:41 GMT
Uh, wait. Putting なさい on the end of the regular command isn't polite at all. For example, 野菜を食べなさい。 (Eat your vegetables.) is something that an authority figure (think Mom with a frown and her hands on her hips) would say to someone below them. (Or if you're close friends and your one friend is being silly and has to be bossed around for their own good.) Tacking なさい on the end sounds bossy.
What you want is ください. Putting that on the end makes a polite(r) command. (Since there's really no such thing as a polite command in Japanese.) Example: 野菜を食べて下さい。(Please eat your vegetables.)
|
|
|
Post by assasin8 on Jan 26, 2015 19:56:04 GMT
Thank you for telling me that before I went and looked like an idiot! (You know, in public...) Conjugations and polite forms are just the worst when learning a new language...
|
|
|
Post by Crimson Amarone on Feb 5, 2015 23:18:37 GMT
Anyone know what the loanword origin of ビニール is? I'm pretty sure it isn't English. It's one of many vocab words I have starred for never remembering it. xD
|
|