|
Post by Mikauzoran on Apr 2, 2015 0:12:11 GMT
Haha. At first I didn't remember that I had written that. I guess I wasn't fully awake at seven this morning. Even though I had been up for a full hour by that time. Hmm.
Anyway, yeah. I have this fun plunnie for evil Toi-chan at the moment that I'm flirting with. Oh. That would be good for "Betrayed". I'll have to do that now that it has a reason to be written. I wanted to do something fun and light, though, since I feel like everyone else is going the angst route.
Aaaaaaanywaaaaaay. I still believe in the rules of detective fiction that say that the detective can't be the killer. *Shakes Mouse Trap*
|
|
Kaggami
Beta Reader
I´m freezing in my own house... winter, no one invited you yet!
Posts: 527
|
Post by Kaggami on Apr 2, 2015 0:37:27 GMT
But wasn´t there an episode where the killer was a detective? a high school detective, but still a detective nevertheless. Hmmm... which was it? something about gathering of the detectives or something...
|
|
|
Post by StarlightDragons on Apr 2, 2015 0:41:59 GMT
yeah, in the gathering of detectives all the suspects are detectives XD
|
|
|
Post by Mikauzoran on Apr 2, 2015 1:08:27 GMT
Yes. What I'm saying is that the rule is that THE detective can't be the killer; A detective can be the killer, just not the one that we're counting on. So it's fine that she was the killer, but it would be wrong if the detective relating the story to us, Conan/Hattori, was the killer.
Basically the rule is that a detective can't be the one investigating/solving a murder that they themselves committed.
|
|
|
Post by StarlightDragons on Apr 2, 2015 1:10:11 GMT
oooh, yeah. main chara no es el killer.
unless he is. >.>
<.<
|
|
Kaggami
Beta Reader
I´m freezing in my own house... winter, no one invited you yet!
Posts: 527
|
Post by Kaggami on Apr 2, 2015 1:11:22 GMT
Hmmmm... indeed... unless they have multiple personalities and are unaware of it... And so an idea for a story was born XD
Yea, but now that Gosho said Conan never met anokata in person, I am out of reasonable theories...
|
|
|
Post by House of Mystery on Apr 2, 2015 1:33:32 GMT
In the olden days, I used to theorize that Ano Kata was Saizo Kano (the figure mentioned but never seen in the Symphony Serial Murders case). It's not the first time that Aoyama's built up a character (or just a name) as a Big Deal in a case only to completely forget about him once the *real* murderer is revealed, but something about his reputation as a criminal mastermind just clicked with me...
|
|
TinyTantei
Full Member
Current emotion: nah.
Posts: 188
|
Post by TinyTantei on Apr 2, 2015 1:48:44 GMT
All of this detective discussion reminds me of The Riddler Who Can't/Won't Solve Riddles, in which the detective actually is (?) the killer...but then again, VOCALOID songs are exempt from every rule ever.
|
|
|
Post by airbournebearcarcass on Apr 2, 2015 15:39:00 GMT
Haha. At first I didn't remember that I had written that. I guess I wasn't fully awake at seven this morning. Even though I had been up for a full hour by that time. Hmm. Anyway, yeah. I have this fun plunnie for evil Toi-chan at the moment that I'm flirting with. Oh. That would be good for "Betrayed". I'll have to do that now that it has a reason to be written. I wanted to do something fun and light, though, since I feel like everyone else is going the angst route. Aaaaaaanywaaaaaay. I still believe in the rules of detective fiction that say that the detective can't be the killer. *Shakes Mouse Trap* But that does not prevent the detective from being able to commit 'off-screen villainy'. Kaito might very well have a tendency to flash his middle finger to kittens, but we are kept in the dark about this habit until the moment when the habit becomes plot relevant.
|
|
|
Post by StarlightDragons on Apr 2, 2015 15:40:49 GMT
I think it's more likely that he gives the finger (and focuses all of his hate) to fish, but yes, I see your point XD
|
|
|
Post by newrandomguy on Apr 22, 2015 4:10:56 GMT
These are the list of people from most likely to least likely I think are the boss: before writing down the list I want to write about why I think some characters are not the boss. a) James Black cant be the boss because than they would already know that akai is alive and that mizunashi rena is a traitor. also he could have easilly killed akai whom he considered a great threat at any time if he was the main villain. b) akai cannot be the boss because he could have easilly done great harm to the FBI,Conan, Haibara and he knows too much. also why would he save Haibara out of the blue even killing an agent of his own organization in the process. therefore with these two eliminated here is my list: 1. Sharon Vineyard. : We know that chriss was impersonating her but what happened to her actual mother? its never revealed that she was killed and why does an actress join the black organization how would that connection be made. I understand police officers being recruited by an insider but who would approach an actress most likely she had familly connections to the organization and also sharon and yukiko apparently learned disguising techniques together how would vermouth be able to impersonate her mother if she didn't learn the techniques yet? it makes more sense that the actuall sharon learned the techniques and passed it onto her daughter. Also finally bourbon said that there was a relationship between the boss and vermouth and also it is known that vermouth is the bossess favourite. It makes sense that a cautios person would ask there daughter to impersonate them as they went into hiding to run a criminal organization.
2. Haibara Ai: I think she might be the organizations head becuase it is suspicios that she a person who efused to make the drug would be allowed to look into kudos house while she is not a feild agent and also why was she given a codename despite not being a feild agent and why is the codename sherry which can be taken for sherlock. Finally she has a lot of information about the black organization but she refuses to give anything useful. It is also suspicous that seeing how smart gin is that he was unable to figure out that kudo might still be alive while she did. also on the rooftop gin had a lot of time to kill her but didn't and allowed her to live. Also the person who actually let her life be in danger was executed by gin afterwards. It makes sense that she would get close to Conan to see what he knows and whom he has told as it would be really suspicous if everyone related to shinichi kudo were murdered. Also the reason conan is still alive is because she might be trying to get him deeper inside the FBI's investigation and will than get information out of him. So to me it makes sense that she could be the main villain.
3. Heiji Hattori's Father: He is shown to be as smart as shinichi's father and he has a connection to the police. Also I don't know much in the way of Japan but from what I surmise the police involverd in the woodpecker case I think might be his subordinates and they are suspicous so I beleive that he might be the main villain.
4.Heiji Hattori: In the whole manga if there is anyone who can be considered a rival to shinichi its heiji. He might also be trying to get information out of him like the list of all the spies in the organization.
|
|
|
Post by StarlightDragons on Apr 22, 2015 4:23:13 GMT
it was confirmed that anokata isn't anyone that Conan's ever seen before though, wasn't it? at least, not face to face. so it can't be vermouth - either chris or sharon, unless you're implying that sharon has been in existence before vermouth took over (we... have no idea of her family. or anything about her, except that she doesn't age for some absurd reason) - and it can't be haibara either because of the same reason and also because we've seen her inside thoughts and unless she's got amnesia or some other form of trauma or is desperately trying to cast away the title of the boss, nope. not happening. as for heiji and his dad, same thing with the confirmation that it's not someone conan has met face to face - or something along those lines. admittedly, all of these ideas would've held merit had gosho not revealed that conan has yet to meet the boss. so. oh, and I think he mentioned that the boss doesn't have an alcoholic codename? so that strikes vermouth, again. wait, are you trying to say that there was a sharon before vermouth came and became sharon and then chris? because that's a whole different theory altogether. again, we have no idea what's with vermouth, so that might be possible. vermouth's such a big question mark... either way, conan has met her, so that's not a thing for anokata. edit: here~ Apparently we have a bit of information from Gosho, from SDB60+
|
|
|
Post by newrandomguy on Apr 22, 2015 15:12:34 GMT
Ok, when I said Sharon here is what I meant. Vermoth = chris. Chris posed as Sharon for a long ass time while Sharon went into hiding. Imagine if she started posing as her mother at the age of 15 or younger than it would make sense that all of the fingerprints they found of sharons were actually chris's also the fact that she doesn't age is explained because she was really young in the first place and is now 35 years old. remember in the train yukiko said that she never seemed to age as sharon because she was playing an older person. That being said the real sharon had to exist at some point. If we consider that Toichi was the one who taught the disguise skills than we can know that the real Sharon learned from Toichi than taught her daughter so that she could disguise herself as her. This also means that the real Sharon has never before appeared infront of Conan only Chris pretending to be Sharon. If sharon was truely the same person as Chris than conans identity would have been obvios from the get go. So the question is how did a 15 year old Chris get recruited to the organization (she killed jodies parants) this had to have been because she had familly connections. Therefore I really think that the boss is Sharon Vinyard the real one. Finally I don't disgard the others because while we have heard Ai's inner thoughts and memories they could be justified by saying that it was a role she was playing furthermore isn't it strange that she can "Sense" BO members obiosly the boss would know all the members. Finally I am not sure about the Ano Kata hasn't appeared infornt of conan thing. I mean if you take it metophorically then it cold mean that they havent acted as the boss infront of conan. If you take it litterally though I think that it still supports my Sharon Vinyard Theory.
|
|
|
Post by StarlightDragons on Apr 22, 2015 21:01:15 GMT
I can see the possibility of your "Sharon/Chris/Vermouth is screwing everyone over as usual" idea, and it's a thought. However, I think it's more likely that Vermouth has been unaging for longer than that, so maybe push it back a generation. Otherwise, that's plausible. Ish. We just don't know; Vermouth's got so many freaking mysteries.
Why did a "real" Sharon have to exist? She does not have to; it's a possibility, but not an assurance. Again, Vermouth does not age. She could have very easily crafted the disguise of Sharon Vineyard when her old one no longer became suitable. (re: too old / supposed to be dead) And that kind of throws off the rest of that lot, so I'll skim onward. Oh - wait, your comment about Conan's identity? Vermouth was suspicious from the get go. All she needed was some more confirmation - because sure, she doesn't age, but that doesn't automatically lead to the idea of being deaged. Even if it did, she'd want to make completely sure. Assassins tend to lead paranoid lives, if Gin's any indication, and Vermouth is better than he is (or so it's implied - maybe confirmed? I'll have to check later).
Either way - mother of Vermouth as boss, possible. We just don't know. I'm disinclined to think the "real Sharon", though. edit: Unless someone came and pretended to be Sharon so was technically Sharon for a time. //shrugs//
I'm pretty sure the person themself has not appeared in front of Conan at all - it's flat language, just like how he tells us that Yusaku is not the boss and Agasa is not the boss - would you argue that technically Yusaku might still be the boss because he's not acted like anokata in front of Conan? Gosho tends to give us straight Japanese in regards to brushing off anokata suspicions, since I think everyone would feel cheated if he went off and hid anokata from us on a technicality like that. Still, I suppose I couldn't do anything to change your mind.
Also, I think it makes more sense (ha!) that Haibara's sense comes from terror and having grown up with the "scent" of the organization's members, though that's purely speculation. Again, unless she's trying to take down / escape her own organization (which doesn't happen in canon; anokata is very much trying to keep people in line, etc.), then none of what she does and what others do make any sense. Vermouth obviously is extremely loyal to the boss (note I said the boss, not the organization; it's likely a personal loyalty), so why would she be trying to kill Haibara all the time? Why would she be trying so hard to hide Conan's existence from the boss? Besides, Haibara's sisters and parents were killed when she very obviously misses them, in particular her sister (who wanted to get her out of the org, which would make no sense); heck, Haibara was called in to take over for her parents. Unless she was previously a recent boss and decided she didn't like it anymore and they didn't like her and she made a run for it, it's definitely not her.
|
|
|
Post by House of Mystery on May 3, 2015 16:52:02 GMT
As of late, I've developed a new theory that the *actual* Ano Kata's identity isn't all that important. This allows Gosho to shift it to a new character every time a large number of fans pool their guesses on one character and confront him about it in interviews.
I think that the DC fandom has hung onto the "is X character Ano Kata?" question so tightly that most of them forget "X is not Ano Kata" does NOT mean "X is not affiliated with the Organization". Dr. Agasa might not be Ano Kata himself, but that doesn't preclude the idea that he's taking orders from them. At some early stage in the manga, the good Doc may well have been Ano Kata and secretly laying schemes to ensure Shinichi's downfall, but if he got "demoted" as time went on... well, Gosho can just say that he's getting all his ideas from Ano Kata without having to change a thing.
When you get down to it, Ano Kata arguably doesn't *need* to exist as an individual character. He/she/it already exists through henchmen like Gin and Vodka, who are pretty much established as mindless extensions of his/her/its will. Vermouth is admittedly a special case, being one of the members whose (relative) independence seems to be a key plot point, but she's only one character.
|
|