|
Post by Crimson Amarone on Oct 28, 2014 1:00:43 GMT
Hey, I was wondering if the では usage you were explaining was different from the use it in sentences like my example [この 工場[こうじょう]では 魚[さかな]を加工[かこう]している] though. They seemed to be used in a really different way.
|
|
|
Post by Mikauzoran on Oct 28, 2014 2:34:49 GMT
Yeah, in your example, Crimson-san, で and は are separate particles. で in your example is the location marker, and は is the topic marker. It's kind of like I explained with には that using で and は together puts the emphasis on the location. "In THIS factory, fish is processed."
で by itself is used kind of like "at" in English. としょかんで "at the library". こうえんで "at the park". It can also be used to mean "with (a tool)" or "by means of". For example, "I eat with chopsticks." はしで食べる. And "I went by train." 電車で行った.
Does that make sense? This is fun! It's been too long since I was a teacher. I really miss that. I miss my students too. :/
|
|
|
Post by Crimson Amarone on Oct 28, 2014 2:54:04 GMT
That's what I sorta thought. I suppose it was good that you could help explain both uses more fully for us. I think Natsumi was asking about the で+は use at first, but knowing both and knowing they are different is even more helpful.
Aw, I'm glad you can share your expertise here. I've never done any teaching, but a new intern started at my work and I get to share lots of stuff I know about Adobe programs and design so it's definitely a good feeling teaching someone new things.
|
|
|
Post by Mikauzoran on Oct 28, 2014 3:22:59 GMT
I agree. I know personally in my own language journey, it was always so cool when I would finally GET something and then be able to communicate. Like my first day in Japan when I was nineteen, I went with a group that didn't have any Japanese experience at all. I had had Japanese 101 and everything I had taught myself since I was fourteen, but I wasn't really confident in my abilities. Anyway, one of the other girls had allergies, so I had to talk to one of the workers at the shop and ask what all was in it and everything. It was nerve-wrecking, but I was able to do it, and I felt so proud of myself. The best part about teaching was helping others understand and then watching them have those moments of "Oh my gosh! I GET it now!"
|
|
|
Post by Nikudou Natsumi on Oct 28, 2014 3:30:23 GMT
I love it when I have those moments ^-^
|
|
|
Post by assasin8 on Nov 12, 2014 0:19:17 GMT
So I was reading some manga, when I started noticing that some verbs would have 「いる」after them for some reasons, while others didn't.... Like sometimes it would say 「知ってる」and other times it would be 「知っている」. Does that change how the word is used? Also, how to you conjugate a word to mean you "can" do something? Like I think 「話す」would become 「話せる」, but why? And what about verbs like 「歩く」and 「眠る」?
|
|
|
Post by Mikauzoran on Nov 12, 2014 1:04:40 GMT
Did certain characters use the long form while others kept the い in there? In informal speech, sometimes people drop syllables or slur syllables together. Like, when I'm really frustrated, I tend to scream わかへん! Instead of わからへん. Haha. Yeah. I whine in kansaiben when I'm really not getting it. Just so everyone understands, that's 分かる "to understand". Normally it would be わからない or, shortened, it goes to わかない or sometimes even わかん. It doesn't change the meaning "don't understand". It just shows the character of the person speaking. Let me know if that doesn't answer your question or if that doesn't make sense.
As for your second question, you're talking about the potential form of the verb. Example: for う verbs, you change the ending to える. Example: よむ becomes よめる. あそぶ あそべる うたう うたえる しぬ しねる わたす わたせる いく いける およぐ およげる たつ たてる ふる ふれる
Is that it? I think so. I can't think of any more verb endings at the moment, but that's how you do the う verbs. As for る verbs, you change the ending to られる.
Example: たべる たべられる ねる ねられる おきる おきられる みる みられる
I think you get the gist of it. As for why they chose to conjugate the verbs like that, I don't know. I wasn't around when the ancient Japanese were first forming speech. That's just the way you conjugate the potential form. Let me know if there's anything you didn't get or need explained more in depth. ^.~
-Kara
|
|
|
Post by Nikudou Natsumi on Nov 12, 2014 1:12:56 GMT
I don't know Kansai Ben, but it's cool that you do Sometimes I shorten words as well, but not much, and usually only in one circumstance. But then again, I don't know much Japanese yet. I usually shorten わたし to たし when I say わたしの____. Usually it's タシのばか
|
|
|
Post by Mikauzoran on Nov 12, 2014 1:21:11 GMT
Awww! *Glomp* That's so cute, Natsumi-chan! I lived and worked and studied in Kyoto both times I was in Japan, so I kind of just picked it up from my neighbors. ^.^; They thought it was cute that the foreigner spoke like a local. There was this one lady at the ticket stand that delighted in teaching me words and phrases like ame-chan and okini.
Now, whenever I hear kansaiben in anime, it feels like coming home. It's definitely made me more fond of Heiji. I squeal whenever I hear him speak because he sounds just like my neighborhood family. Anyway, I endeavor to speak in the standard dialect most of the time, but when I speak with friends or get really excited/frustrated, I start throwing へん all over the place in place of my ないs. Haha. Yeah. ^.^;
|
|
|
Post by Nikudou Natsumi on Nov 12, 2014 1:43:33 GMT
I wish I could go to Japan . . . When I get excited, angry, surprised, etc, I just revert into standard Japanese, cuz that's all I know. Unless I don't know the word. If I don't know the word, then I'll go to Spanish. If I don't know the word in Spanish either, I have to stay in English. Which sometimes, understandably, results in Spangleshese (Spanish + English + Japanese) sentences . . .
And sometimes when I think Spanish to myself, I only realize that part of the sentence was in Japanese a few seconds after I say it. I forgot the pronoun (and whether it was in Spanish or Japanese), but I remember that one of the times I did this I said "____ no Biblia" for "____'s Bible".
|
|
|
Post by Crimson Amarone on Nov 12, 2014 1:45:31 GMT
Speaking is something I need to practice soon... Some of those small details in writing like slight slurring and slang is also stuff that throws me off since I'm still pretty early in my studies. I think in the grammar lesson I read for the potential form also had a few verbs that were irregular and more specific conjugations. I don't remember any off the top of my head. Maybe you're familiar with some Mikau? I'm not sure how many there were or even if they were that common. Haha, I always thought it be fun to pick up small speech tics from Heiji's Kansai-ben and Sera's habit of talking like a tomboy saying "boku" and whatnot.
|
|
|
Post by Mikauzoran on Nov 14, 2014 23:56:44 GMT
You mean like くる and する? くる conjugates to こられる, and する becomes できる.
Um...maybe are you talking about how you change the particle を to が? Like しんぶんを読む becomes しんぶんが読める. Or like how しゅくだいをする becomes しゅくだいができる. Is that maybe what you're talking about, Crimson?
|
|
geekygenius
Full Member
Who knew Star Trek had so many feels? (or: damn it Janeway let yourself be happy)
Posts: 192
|
Post by geekygenius on Dec 5, 2014 12:54:25 GMT
Kara did an awesome job at explaining, but if you were looking to learn about all of that, I would recommend the Genki textbooks are really great for explaining grammar and all of that stuff, and it has examples and a CD so you can listen to it, which I find handy to help you study while catching the train or bus in the morning. And it has kanji and a decent amount of vocabulary too I have used them and found them really practical and great at explaining stuff. (If you are using another text book at school or something though, don't worry too much and just ignore this)
|
|
|
Post by assasin8 on Dec 15, 2014 1:22:08 GMT
Is there a Japanese equivalent or conjugation for expressing the conditional tense? Like, to express "would", "could" and "should", what are you supposed to do? For example, if I wanted to say "you should eat soon" or "I would help you if I could", how would I structure that sentence?
Also, how would you express "need" or "obligation"? I know there's "必要", but I feel like that's closer to "require", like "I need a chair". How do you say, for example "I need to do my homework"?
|
|
|
Post by Crimson Amarone on Dec 15, 2014 4:03:39 GMT
|
|