Katrinka
Junior Member
I'm back, studying the first year of second high school in Prague. ^.^
Posts: 92
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Post by Katrinka on Apr 23, 2015 18:29:39 GMT
Wow, good theories! And that newest... yeah, that makes a sense, but I don't like it too much.
I like a theory about Hakuba's and Haibara's mothers (Sorry, HakuAi fans!). Both of them are British and we don't know anything about Saguru's mother. And Ai's mother is full of secrets for us too... Maybe Haibara don't know him and probably she don't know that she has a broad family. And I have a feeling that Haibara and Saguru didn't meet in manga, so maybe... The second idea is Eisuke's mum and mother of Akai family. We don't know anything about Eisuke's and Hidemi's mother so it's possible.
I don't think that Aoyama-sensei makes Akai's and Haibara's mothers sisters because Šúiči and Akemi were in love and it means that it was cousin's incest. So - NO. Please... it's strange.
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Post by StarlightDragons on Apr 23, 2015 22:26:13 GMT
yeah, that last part is my main thought line so far XD
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Post by Crimson Amarone on Apr 23, 2015 22:30:57 GMT
Same. I absolutely don't believe or will accept that Akai and Miyano mothers are sisters. Shuu and Akemi cannot be both lovers and cousins...
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neonquincy1217
God
Note to self: Be kind to yourself. Be patient. Embrace the random. Life is not instant noodles. :))
Posts: 1,339
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Post by neonquincy1217 on Apr 25, 2015 8:16:18 GMT
hmmm, about that... about Akai and Akemi being cousins... actually... I dunno but... I think marriage between cousins in Japan is legal. I mean I've encountered more than one instance regarding that, not just in DCMK but also in other anime. Although this is just an unfounded guess but I just get the feeling that it is. In Meitantei Conan, for example, the instance of cousin-marrying-cousin appeared in Luxury Liner Murder Case. One of the daughters of the murdered elder married her cousin (although it caused an uproar because the elder was so against it), and the sketcher dude was confirmed to have fallen in love with his cousin (and if my memory is correct, he would have pursued it if it's not for the old man's intervention again). I'm sure there's another one, but I can't present it right now, gomen. Another, non-DCMK instance. Is anyone here familiar with the anime "Cardcaptor Sakura"? I've read the manga and watched every episode (and movie) of the anime and as I recall, the character named Li Shaoran was engaged to his cousin Meilin? And to think Meilin is an anime original character... Doesn't it suggest that there's nothing weird but rather it's a rare but not illegal instance in Japan for cousins to marry each other? Another one, also non-DCMK-related series, is in an ongoing manga called "Watashi ni XX Shinasai." The heroine, Yukina, is secretly a phone novelist and the only person who knows that initially was her cousin, Akira, who openly confessed and demonstrated his serious pursuit for romance with the girl who supported him through and through (heck, they went on a DATE, not as cousins but as a couple!). Albeit their parents still don't know about his romantic inclination, about two or three people in the same age group know about it, most notably this other guy, Shigure, who likes Yukina as well, who at one point asked about this romance between cousins thing... and if I'm not mistaken, someone told him it's unusual but not illegal to marry one's cousin... So... if ever the Akai mother is really the sister of Elena, there's nothing socially wrong with Shuichi and Akemi (given if she hadn't died) to have married each other... Okay, yays, it's not an unfounded guess anymore!~ To support my claim, I got Mr. WIKI-CHAN to help me, and I quote: "[Marriage between cousins] is allowed in Japan, though the incidence has declined in recent years..." Although, I think, in more recent years, they've stopped doing that... And frankly... I'm having mixed emotions about it, about Akai and Akemi and cousins...
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Post by Crimson Amarone on Apr 25, 2015 13:02:38 GMT
Like Katrinka said though, it would still be incest. Since we've already delved into the "what could have happened" we could consider if they did have a happy ending, get married, had kids, etc. There's surely a few reasons against cousin couples. One of the biggest is that children whose biological parents have a close genetic relationship have an increased risk of congenital disorders, death, and disability due at least in part to genetic diseases caused by the inbreeding. You could say they didn't know they were cousins or maybe they didn't think about these kinds of reasons or whatever, which could be justifiable reasoning. However I just think it's weird for Gosho to have known this about his characters and then not address it if it turns out to be the case. He did show this sort of controversy in the case you mentioned even if it didn't bring up the kind of issue I'm concerned about. I get that cousin marriages still happen, but there's important reason why they aren't happening as much now.
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Post by StarlightDragons on Apr 25, 2015 15:34:09 GMT
sudden thought, though - maybe they didn't know, like those twins in one case? that would be horrible, though. I hope that doesn't happen.
well, it's now officially confirmed that sera and shinichi aren't cousins. darnit.
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Post by Mikauzoran on Apr 25, 2015 16:10:38 GMT
Darn Quincy beat me to it. It's actually not weird for cousins to marry. Only in recent years has there been any stigma concerning it. With medical and scientific advancements and the knowledge of the risks and defects that come with incest like Crimson discussed, cousin marriages have declined in the past couple of decades. A lot of this has to do with influence from the West after the war.
In the past, marriage with a cousin was sort of default/preferred in many cultures even outside of Asia. I mean, Cleopatra was married to her brother. It was all about keeping the power and wealth within the family.
So yeah. That ick factor we all feel about marrying a cousin is kind of a new thing. I personally cringe at the thought of them being related, but, like Quincy said, it would be perfectly legal in Japan.
That being said, I like the TouichixYuusaku mothers theory. That would actually make sense.
But yeah. It's always been a headcanon of mine that Hakuba and Haibara are secretly cousins. I mean...how many half-Brits can you have in one manga series?
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neonquincy1217
God
Note to self: Be kind to yourself. Be patient. Embrace the random. Life is not instant noodles. :))
Posts: 1,339
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Post by neonquincy1217 on Apr 25, 2015 16:14:16 GMT
True true. I've read about that as well, and that it happens a lot once upon a time in royal bloodlines to preserve the sanctity or purity or whatnot amongst royal borns. I've also read about the mutations and abnormalities (was it King Charles? *tilts head, and goes to Listverse*), heck it even reminds me of Gabriel Garcia Marquez's One Hundred Years of Solitude.
Then again we do not have enough info and all we have are speculations so let's just Akai and Akemi are not biologically related.
Shinichi and Sera not being cousins are confirmed? So then, so then... okay I don't know how to feel about this...
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dogfish44
Junior Member
You are now aware that you are breathing manually!
Posts: 99
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Post by dogfish44 on Dec 5, 2015 2:01:40 GMT
Okay, so I'm redeveloping some theories. I like the way that this one has panned out so far... THE FOLLOWING POST CONTAINS MANGA SPOILERS AND TERRIBLE 2AM LOGIC. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED{Spoiler: Click to view/hide} Facts- Sera's Mother is pretty much confirmed as one of the Sisters. Yukiko is confirmed to NOT be a sister.
- This means that Sera's Mother cannot be Shinichi's Aunt through Yukiko
- As of C930, the Unknown Child is called Mary (Which is how I'll refer to her from here on out)
- Shinichi recognises Mary from somewhere
- In C897, we learn that Yukiko is very good at disguises of people she knows well. Shinichi also remarks that she did a very good Haibara disguise.
- Haibara and Mary look very similar, so much so that a tiny bit of makeup makes the switch in Shinichi's brain
- Yukiko and Yuusaku left to travel 3 years ago
- Sera left Japan for the US.... 3 years ago
- Gosho uses appearances to indicate family, and often has genetic traits skip a generation (See: Heiji's darker skin)
- APTX seems to always revert it's victim to 6 years old
TheorySo I was considering 'Mary'. Mary is a very old name in the UK - traditional, and in the 1910's and 20's it was easily the top, or at least the 2nd most common girl's name. So I made a simple theory, "Mary, the Unknown Child, is Sera's Grandmother." Then I started to build around that.... and a lot of coincidences and the like fell into place. For instance, Haibara and Mary look ominously similar. Yet Elena looks completely different - so where was that appearance passed down from? It's likely made like Heiji's darker skin and has been inherited from a grandparent. Such as Mary! So we can add to the theory "Mary is Haibara's Grandmother as well." From here we can figure out who's mothers are very likely sisters. "Mary is mother to Elena Miyano and Sera's mother. Elena Miyano and Sera's Mother are the sisters" This seems reasonable, but there are a few holes still. For instance, why does Shinichi recognise Mary as a name? And then we have the cousins... Well, the cousins dating is fairly easy to explain. The Miyanos were estranged from the family when they entered the BO - and since both Akemi and Shiho were born into the org, it's likely that they might not've known they even had cousins, likewise for Shuuichi. It'd be a bit off-putting for them to find out, I'd imagine. But the scenario (Accidental incest) has come up before, specifically in the Amuro introduction case. As for how Shinichi is related to Mary? There are two paths I can see. The simplest is that Yuusaku is a Brother to Elena and Sera's mother, but with a direct line like that, it's fairly likely that Sera and Shinichi would've met multiple times, as cousins. There is another alternative, and it's even more reliant on Gosho being.... conservative with the truth. Since he could've intentionally left out that Yukiko was a half-sibling to Elena and Sera's Mother. Or perhaps a Step-sibling... although I prefer half-sibling (Or even going through Yuusaku), since that would add a genetic line (Which would be a reasonable explanation for APTX immunity) Either way, it's fairly likely that Mary is extended enough family that Shinichi wouldn't remember her that well - or hasn't put 2 & 2 together (He's not heard the mystery girl iirc, so possibly can't confirm she's shrunk to begin with?). Lord knows I wouldn't be able to identify a substantial part of my extended family =.=' Either way, it explains a few things. Yukiko and Yuusaku didn't leave for the US because they suddenly wanted to, but for the same reason that Sera left - I should imagine it's related to the reason that Mary is rather short. They were probably almost glad Shinichi stayed in Japan (Probably safer).... and I don't recall them being that surprised at the concept of someone shrinking, more worried for Shinichi. Anyway, I might add stuff later, but it's 2 AM so yeah.
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Post by Shihominn on Dec 5, 2015 2:22:48 GMT
Holy theories, Dogfish!! {Spoiler!} I really support your theory, there is definitely a family relation between Mary and Haibara!
So, to put it all together, Mary is the grandmother, Elena and Sera's mother are sisters, and Haibara and Sera are cousins...
And the relation between Shinichi and the "sisters"? I go with Yukiko being the relative, because.... I don't know? Is difficult to link people in DC because of physical traits, all people looks almost the same! But Yukiko's hair is super distinctive, and closer to a foreign style.
Ahhhh, the mystery remains...
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Post by Mikauzoran on Dec 6, 2015 0:36:12 GMT
*Claps enthusiastically* Good job, dogfish! I think that's a really interesting and plausible theory.
Side note: as for cousins dating, there really isn't the same stigma in Japan as there is in the West. It's getting stronger with increased western influence, but, honestly, it probably wouldn't make much difference to them that they were cousins.
Side, side note: there's also not the same stigma about age gaps in relationships as there is in western countries. I actually learned that when I was writing my senior honors thesis. ^.^; I was going to have one of my characters feel like a pedophile for dating his best friend's younger sister (with whom there was about an eight year gap), but then I was told that he wouldn't feel that way because that wasn't "icky" to the Japanese conscience like it was to the western. I was then referred to Card Captor Sakura in which a grade school girl and her twenty-something teacher were secretly dating.
Anyway.
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neonquincy1217
God
Note to self: Be kind to yourself. Be patient. Embrace the random. Life is not instant noodles. :))
Posts: 1,339
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Post by neonquincy1217 on Dec 6, 2015 9:59:09 GMT
Wow, *echoes what Shihominn and Mikau said* especially that one with the Kudou couple.
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dogfish44
Junior Member
You are now aware that you are breathing manually!
Posts: 99
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Post by dogfish44 on Dec 10, 2015 2:45:32 GMT
Danke Incidentally, thanks to presumenothing for the latest translations! It looks like we're actually going to go into the whole 'stigma' thing really soon, if Conan can avoid tripping over more than 3 cases before he finished that line of thought.
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neonquincy1217
God
Note to self: Be kind to yourself. Be patient. Embrace the random. Life is not instant noodles. :))
Posts: 1,339
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Post by neonquincy1217 on Dec 10, 2015 5:42:32 GMT
But-but wait *goes back a few posts ago* I thought Shinichi and Sera not being cousins are confirmed already...?
Oookay I'm confused @_@
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sgchan
Junior Member
Posts: 64
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Post by sgchan on Dec 12, 2015 19:17:43 GMT
On the one hand I am totally on board for Elena and Sera's mom being siblings bc that would mean that Ai has living relatives, but on the other hand that would mean Shuu and Akemi were cousins xS
Also, it would be very interesting if the apotoxin reverted all its victims to six years of age instead of just ten years like has been thought in the past (tho to be fair we only had Shinichi and Shiho to look at here and they're both teenagers and we don't technically know Shiho's actual age). I wonder what would be the explanation for it though? I mean, six isn't exactly an auspicious age...
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